Hazing

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Hazing

Post by Poobah on Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:14 am

What do you personally think constitutes hazing? Feel free to speak your minds, but be respectful of the opinions of others.

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Re: Hazing

Post by Liberty Warrior on Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:38 pm

Good Question. I think that the DOD definition of hazing probably goes too far.
"Hazing is defined as any conduct whereby a person is caused, to suffer or be exposed to any activity which is cruel, abusive, humiliating, oppressive, demeaning, or harmful."
Then again maybe not, it depends how you look at it. It maybe okay for CAP, but I don't really consider it an okay definition for the military. There are some things that they need to get done and I think having rules that are this strict may prevent them from accomplishing their mission to the fullest.

Perhaps you have seen these articles from cadetstuff.org by Capt. Shawn Stanford regarding hazing. I tend to agree with what he presents in these articles.

http://www.cadetstuff.org/archives/000095.html#000095
http://www.cadetstuff.org/archives/000117.html#000117
http://www.cadetstuff.org/archives/000118.html#000118

There are many other ways to teach people and to correct them with out hazing, we just need to be creative enough to find them and bold enough to implement them.

Any ways, just my 2 cents.

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Re: Hazing

Post by Poobah on Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:32 pm

Yes, good input, but where do we draw the line? Where does it turn from discipline to hazing?

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Re: Hazing

Post by topgun on Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:22 pm

No comment.

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Re: Hazing

Post by YANKEE on Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:01 pm

When you single people out.
It is OK to yell at a flight or group but yelling in cadets faces crosses the line.

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Re: Hazing

Post by Poobah on Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:10 am

I would have to agree with that. But there are some activities which are not appropriate discipline measures even in a flight environment.

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Re: Hazing

Post by topgun on Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:32 am

Okay, now i have a comment. Group "PT" is not hazing....When my cadets start screwing around(which is never Wink I might have them ALL do "mini pt of some pushups". Thats not hazing.

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Re: Hazing

Post by Poobah on Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:52 pm

topgun wrote:Okay, now i have a comment. Group "PT" is not hazing....When my cadets start screwing around(which is never Wink I might have them ALL do "mini pt of some pushups". Thats not hazing.

OOOOh BAD!!!! Bad cadet! Why, you'll warp their little personalities and make them want to quit because they'll think they're being abused!!! How could you think of doing such an inhumane thing???

*ahem* pardon the sarcasm. Smile

Seriously, yah, that's what should be done. But what I hear is that the only PT that is allowed is the scheduled PFT.

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Re: Hazing

Post by topgun on Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:13 am

Haha....You must be tactful in order to make it work. Otherwise, you've messed up.

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Re: Hazing

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:36 pm

Yeah the regs say that PT cannot be used for punishment of any kind. thats pretty easy to stick with, but knowing how far you can go verbally may be a little more difficult. I think that you can correct cadets without yelling, but at an event such as encampments, a little yelling wouldn't be bad for a flight as a group. However, there is no room for "singling out" cadets in CAP.
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Re: Hazing

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 pm

On another note, I believe that the discipline part of the CAP cadet program could be improved by making stricter and raising the standard....a lot. But then again thats just me.
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Re: Hazing

Post by Poobah on Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:44 pm

Zach_Kier wrote:On another note, I believe that the discipline part of the CAP cadet program could be improved by making stricter and raising the standard....a lot. But then again thats just me.

Definitely. CAP needs to be less concerned about how many cadets we have in the program and more concerned with the quality of the citizens we are turning out. That means making the program challenging, and holding people to high standards.

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Re: Hazing

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:18 pm

I think it starts with what they learn at Encampment, and how well they were taught. The tougher the Encampment, the better disciplined and skilled the cadet will be in my opinion. Thats my kind of encampment anyway. I think vmi has altered my sence of "challenging."
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Re: Hazing

Post by Poobah on Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:25 pm

Zach_Kier wrote:I think it starts with what they learn at Encampment, and how well they were taught. The tougher the Encampment, the better disciplined and skilled the cadet will be in my opinion. Thats my kind of encampment anyway. I think vmi has altered my sence of "challenging."

LOL Yah probably. But the problem is, Encampment is only once or twice a year. We need a more challenging program in our squadrons, not just in the extra activities. Yes, Encampment should have a big impact on the cadets. But we need to be careful not to leave it up to the encampment to train our cadets.

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Re: Hazing

Post by topgun on Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:33 am

Poobah wrote:
Zach_Kier wrote:I think it starts with what they learn at Encampment, and how well they were taught. The tougher the Encampment, the better disciplined and skilled the cadet will be in my opinion. Thats my kind of encampment anyway. I think vmi has altered my sence of "challenging."

LOL Yah probably. But the problem is, Encampment is only once or twice a year. We need a more challenging program in our squadrons, not just in the extra activities. Yes, Encampment should have a big impact on the cadets. But we need to be careful not to leave it up to the encampment to train our cadets.

I agree....We need to find ways to instill more discipline in our cadets. Its just hard when you can't do anything to "break them down" in order to buld them back up.

I guess we must be tactful and do our best with what things we are allowed to do.

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Re: Hazing

Post by dan_oldgoat on Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:21 pm

Pt makes cadets smarter....as long as you do it in a group. Otherwise, Praise in Public, Punish in Private

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Re: Hazing

Post by OconnorRT on Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:06 pm

The line is very thin, and the gray areas stretch from horizon to horizon.

Also, different locations may mean different levels of interperetation. For instance, and this is based on what I've seen, some things done in certain places may be regarded differnetly somewhere else. It may also depend on who is in charge.
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